14 replies to this topic

[kub]

http://www.break.com... ... call2.html






News article on from Dallas on the story

Lawyer: Pasadena resident fatally shot pair out of fear

Man told 911 operator he'd kill men he thought were robbing neighbor


07:49 AM CST on Wednesday, November 28, 2007
Associated Press

HOUSTON – A man who told a 911 operator he was going to kill two men he thought were burglarizing his neighbor's house fatally shot them only when they came on his property and he felt threatened, his attorney says.

Tom Lambright, who represents Joe Horn of Pasadena, said his client was just going to take a look around when he went outside Nov. 14 after hearing glass break at his neighbor's house. He had seen Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, crawling into and then out of a window.

Mr. Horn went outside, armed with a 12-gauge shotgun, to see where they were heading when he came face to face with them in his front yard, Mr. Lambright said.

Mr. Horn is 61 and heavyset. The burglary suspects were young and strong enough to beat him to death, Mr. Lambright said. So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Mr. Horn fired, killing both.

"He's trying to protect his own life," Mr. Lambright said. "He's scared."

Pasadena police planned to present the case to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, officials said Monday. Then, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. Mr. Horn has not been charged.

Mr. Lambright's description is partly at odds with the 911 call in which a dispatcher urges Mr. Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

"You're gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think," the 911 operator said.

"You wanna make a bet?" Mr. Horn answered. "I'm gonna kill 'em."

After the shooting, he redialed 911.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Local activist Quanell X urged authorities to prosecute Mr. Horn.

"Mr. Horn did not have to kill those men," he said at a news conference last week outside Mr. Horn's house. "We believe that Mr. Horn became judge, jury and executioner at the same time."

Mr. Horn "literally went to pieces" after the shooting, Mr. Lambright said.

He's doing better, however, as he reads letters and e-mails and hears radio broadcasts of people supporting his actions, Mr. Lambright said.

State law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property – for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

[geNius]

Fuck yes.

[MAD]

talk about gung-ho oldman! glad i dont have fucked up neighbors like that...

[Moose]

So I guy comes to your house and attempts to harm your wife and kid, you wouldn't want a neighbor to come take them out if given the opportunity?

[VooDoo]

So I guy comes to your house and attempts to harm your wife and kid, you wouldn't want a neighbor to come take them out if given the opportunity?

Exactly.

[geNius]

Like a good neighbor, the Second Amendment is there.

[Hemi]

Hell the state of Texas should compensate this guy what it would of cost the state to prosecute and then house those two.. he just saved the state 6 figures or more.. If we had more judge/jury/executioners our prisons would not be so full.

[MAD]

So I guy comes to your house and attempts to harm your wife and kid, you wouldn't want a neighbor to come take them out if given the opportunity?

Exactly.

of course i would moosie. the house was empty. they broke in in broad daylight! if it were me, i would have listened to the 911 operater. there is no need to take the law into your own hands. i firmly believe if i feel threatned to the point where i do not think i'm going to live, u bet your ass i would put a .45 in someones head! i wouldn't even blink.

but who is to say when that moment comes or if ever, who is to say your justified in your actions?

that oldman was acting on rage! he over reacted. he was told countless times to "stay in the house" and "do not go outside you will be shot if u do!" what did the oldman do, he went outside with the intention of killing those 2 guys.

and that in the laws mind, well maybe not in texas, premedatated murder. he had intention he was told not to, and did anyways!

[MAD]

Oklahoma State Senate Communications Division State Capitol Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105 For Immediate Release: November 3, 2004 How the 'Make My Day' law cut epidemic of violent burglary By Charles Laurence Sunday London Telegraph At 3.30am on January 6, 1987, Dr Frank Sommer, a dentist in Tulsa, Oklahoma, woke to the sound of his garage door opening. He looked at the clock, mentally scolded his son, then 18, or his daughter 20, for getting home so late, and waited for the sound of their footsteps downstairs. "After a few minutes, I thought that it was odd that I had heard nothing more. I took the gun from my nightstand, left my wife fast asleep and went downstairs to make sure everything was OK," he recalled yesterday. What happened next was an experience of pure terror. As he looked through the peep-hole from the kitchen into the garage, he saw two strange men. One was pilfering from his wife's car: the other was standing at the opened door, by the tool racks. Just as he stepped through the door to challenge the intruders, the lights went out. "It was total darkness and suddenly I was very, very scared. I fired one shot and yelled a warning. I saw one figure run off and as I went towards the driveway I saw a body in the doorway. 'Oh no!' I thought. 'He's dead.' " In those few seconds Dr Sommer, 66, had been plunged into a case that changed the law in Oklahoma and may yet influence a change in the law in Britain. Within weeks of the incident, the Oklahoma state government passed legislation that became known as the Make My Day Law, named for the celebrated scene in the Clint Eastwood Dirty Harry film. The law was pushed through by Sen Charles Ford, a Republican, the opposition party in the state. "The purpose of the law is to protect the victim of crime who defends his home and his family against unlawful intrusion from any criminal prosecution or civil action," Sen Ford said last week. "We considered it outrageous that someone who protects his home and family should suffer. Our law says you can use any force, including deadly force, to defend your home." It has been an unqualified success. Since the Make My Day Law came into force, burglary has declined by almost half in Oklahoma. In 1987, there were 58,333 cases; in 2000, just 31,661. While crime rates throughout America fell in the 1990s, Make My Day supporters point to a second statistic in Oklahoma they say proves the impact of the new law: while burglary rates plunged, other forms of theft stayed constant. In 1988, there were 96,418 cases, in 2000, 96,111. Similar anti-burglar laws have now been adopted in Colorado and Arizona. The reason, said Sen Ford, was simple: "The law works. We were in the grip of a violent burglary epidemic when Dr Sommer's home was invaded. "Over that Christmas, we had six people in their 70s and 80s killed, bludgeoned to death by burglars in their bedrooms. How were they meant to defend themselves if they could not legally resort to lethal force?" he said. Giving householders immunity from criminal and civil action was also inspired by Dr Sommer's experience. Although he was taken to the police station and interrogated, the District Attorney read the public mood over the series of deadly burglaries and decided against charging him with the killing of the burglar, Russell Bryant, 19. An "ambulance chaser" lawyer contacted Bryant's family and sought damages for a lifetime of lost earnings on the grounds that the killing was unlawful. "This was outrageous and focused attention on the vague state of the law which left the victim of burglary vulnerable," said Sen Ford, 73. Prior to the Make My Day legislation, the law, as it remains in most American states, sanctioned force in self-defence and the defence of property, but only on the basis of "reasonable" response to the violence offered by the criminal. This allows a baseball bat against a baseball bat, a knife against a knife, and a gun against a gun - although in theory the householder should allow the burglar to shoot first. There have now been at least 11 cases where intruders have been shot dead in Oklahoma and the householders who pulled the trigger have escaped any sanction under the Make My Day law. While Dr Sommer is a fervent supporter of the law protecting householders, he said that killing Bryant had left him into overwhelming feelings of guilt and that for years he was tormented by the thought that he had committed the "ultimate sin". "Every time I go into that garage I think about it," he explained. "But I do not regret it. My wife and children were in our home. I am sorry that young man was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But that was of his choosing." For more information contact: Senate Communications Office - (405) 521-5774 November Press Releases | Press Releases

[MAD]

Calvey Files "Stand Your Ground" Legislation Contact: State Rep. Kevin Calvey Capitol: (405) 557-7370 Del City: (405) 677-1179 OKLAHOMA CITY- (January 23, 2006) – State Rep. Kevin Calvey officially filed legislation today that would provide Oklahomans the ability to protect themselves from perceived danger outside their homes. House Bill 2615 closely resembles Florida’s recently passed "Stand Your Ground" law. Calvey’s bill would amend Oklahoma’s current "Make My Day" law to allow residents to use force, even deadly force, to protect themselves when they believe they are in danger in any place a person has a legal right to be, such as their office, supermarket or on the street. The "Make My Day" law currently provides citizens the right to protect themselves inside their homes, but that right does not extend beyond the home. "The culture of criminal activity is becoming more and more brazen," said Calvey, R-Del City. "The criminals are taking their activities onto the streets and into our cars and public areas. We can’t say that a person has a right self-defense in their homes, but deny them the right to protect themselves or their families anywhere else." Calvey said there is some precedent within the state’s case law that allows a citizen to protect themselves outside the home, but believes that right needs to be written in state law to make it clearer. This bill clarifies the existing case laws by making them statutory. HB 2615 would: • authorize residents to use deadly force, if necessary, to defend themselves against attackers inside their homes or, in some cases, vehicles; • declare an individual does not need to retreat from danger and "has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force ... if force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm or the commission of a forcible felony;" • and provide immunity from criminal prosecution or civil action for using justifiable deadly force. "This bill is about protecting the rights of citizens to live and work without fear of facing prosecution if they defend themselves or their families in public," said Charles Smith, executive director for Oklahoma Rifle Association, the state’s National Rifle Association (NRA) affiliate. "With the recent trends in criminal activity, such as carjackings and workplace violence, it is vital that citizen’s feel they have the right to protect themselves and their families from thugs and criminals."

[geNius]

of course i would moosie. the house was empty. they broke in in broad daylight! if it were me, i would have listened to the 911 operater. there is no need to take the law into your own hands. i firmly believe if i feel threatned to the point where i do not think i'm going to live, u bet your ass i would put a .45 in someones head! i wouldn't even blink.

but who is to say when that moment comes or if ever, who is to say your justified in your actions?

that oldman was acting on rage! he over reacted. he was told countless times to "stay in the house" and "do not go outside you will be shot if u do!" what did the oldman do, he went outside with the intention of killing those 2 guys.

and that in the laws mind, well maybe not in texas, premedatated murder. he had intention he was told not to, and did anyways!

I can assure you that I wouldn't "stay inside" if I was witnessing thievery in my neighborhood. Whether or not people agree with his decision, I don't think too many will be crying over the deaths of two dirtbags. It's the same principle as Iraq: many argue that we shouldn't be there, but not too many people believe Saddam deserved to live.

[MAD]

of course i would moosie. the house was empty. they broke in in broad daylight! if it were me, i would have listened to the 911 operater. there is no need to take the law into your own hands. i firmly believe if i feel threatned to the point where i do not think i'm going to live, u bet your ass i would put a .45 in someones head! i wouldn't even blink.

but who is to say when that moment comes or if ever, who is to say your justified in your actions?

that oldman was acting on rage! he over reacted. he was told countless times to "stay in the house" and "do not go outside you will be shot if u do!" what did the oldman do, he went outside with the intention of killing those 2 guys.

and that in the laws mind, well maybe not in texas, premedatated murder. he had intention he was told not to, and did anyways!

I can assure you that I wouldn't "stay inside" if I was witnessing thievery in my neighborhood. Whether or not people agree with his decision, I don't think too many will be crying over the deaths of two dirtbags. It's the same principle as Iraq: many argue that we shouldn't be there, but not too many people believe Saddam deserved to live.

i understand, but a guy with a family g i would have to stay in the house! does not matter if i had a gun or not. i would never go outside to confront 2 guys for stealing shit from my neighbors!!! and i agree with u, nobody will miss those 2 douchebags! did they get what they deserved? i do not think the punishment fit the crime! but who am i to say? i would protect my friends and family thats for sure!

[MAD]

http://www.liveleak....=bf2_1196730528



watch this everyone, i kind of laughed a little!

[Co-D]

or you can just take my avatar...

[MAD]

i didnt take your avatar! i looked to see if anyone had this and they did not! if u had it first, then i will replace it no big deal!