43 replies to this topic

[MAD]

this war is beginning to look alot like another one we fought over 35 yrs ago!


http://news.yahoo.co... ... urkey_iraq

[Moose]

this war is beginning to look alot like another one we fought over 35 yrs ago!

How is this like Vietnam, educate me.

[MAD]

wrong reasons! douchebag president! to many soldiers dieing for what? why are we still there! no reason at all why we should still be there. its been how long and how much money? how many of our troops have to die before we pull out? i support our troops 100%, but to listen to some of the stories my brother tells me about what we are doing over there, and what the soldiers are coming back are like! my brother if u do not know already owns a tattoo shop just about 3 miles from one of the biggest Army bases in the country. anywhere from field artillery, to grunts, to rangers are stationed there. he hears it all moose. and let me tell ya its not the kind of shit you tell your children!!! and you ask me why is this war compared to vietnam? just look at where it is going! its never ending! and you can thank GWB for that. he had to follow in his fathers footsteps and continue on the ignorance! :roll:

[MAD]

this is just my opinion moose. i feel we went over there for nothing! weapons of mass distruction? we went there for saddam and that reason only! and to me that does not justify thousands of troops dieing for!

[geNius]

The Iraq issue was not solved during the Clinton years; it was avoided.

It is in everyone's best interest to have a peaceful middle east, to be general.

I am weary of arguing against "opinions" that I've already heard on TV several times.

We didn't have a draft. While it is unfortunate that we are losing lives, no one was cheated into going to Iraq. Everyone signed up for the military, so fuck them if they cry about having to do their job.

[Moose]

What Oliver North would say to you.
[quote] Washington, D.C. – Much is being said and written these days about how the war in Iraq resembles the war in Vietnam. The theme began during the 2004 presidential campaign with Democrat presidential candidate John Kerry describing Iraq as a “quagmireâ€

[MAD]

The Iraq issue was not solved during the Clinton years; it was avoided.

It is in everyone's best interest to have a peaceful middle east, to be general.

I am weary of arguing against "opinions" that I've already heard on TV several times.

We didn't have a draft. While it is unfortunate that we are losing lives, no one was cheated into going to Iraq. Everyone signed up for the military, so fuck them if they cry about having to do their job.

HOLY SHIT!

you kidding me geNius? they do not cry to my brother. they tell them what they are told to do. that is exterminate anything in there path. it does not matter if it be women children, do not trust anyone kill em all! that is what some are coming back and telling my brother! ( Rangers, Special Forces)!!! so if you wanna justify killing women and children as that being there job, well thats a load of horse shit!!!

now i do agree that there has to be some kind of stability in the middle east, but why do we have to make it our jobs? why do we have to lose soldiers everyday?

we were doomed the minute we set foot on that sand again! i see no end to this bs war! its funny when bush said he was going to start pulling troops out of Iraq little by little. but the truth is all the government is doing is rotating them!

:roll:

[MAD]

What Oliver North would say to you.

Washington, D.C. – Much is being said and written these days about how the war in Iraq resembles the war in Vietnam. The theme began during the 2004 presidential campaign with Democrat presidential candidate John Kerry describing Iraq as a “quagmire” and demanding a “date certain” for a U.S. pull-out. Purveyors of the “news” in our so-called mainstream media picked up the beat – though many of them are too young to know anything more about Vietnam than what they learned from a movie. The “Vietnam déjà vu” howl is now in full cry. But it’s a myth.

Having now spent nearly as much time in Iraq as I did on my first “tour” of Vietnam in 1968-69, it’s readily apparent that the parallels between the two wars are practically non-existent – on the battlefield. In the press and politics – it’s a different matter. The barons of bombast have decided that Iraq equals Vietnam. Those who make this argument are ignoring some very inconvenient facts.

Most importantly, the adversaries confronted in both wars are radically dissimilar. In Vietnam, U.S. troops faced nearly a quarter of a million conscripted but well trained, disciplined and equipped North Vietnamese Army (NVA) regulars and upwards of 100,000 highly organized Viet Cong (VC) insurgents on a constant basis from 1966 onward. Both the NVA and the VC “irregulars” were well indoctrinated in communist ideology, received direct aid from the Soviet Union, Communist China and the Warsaw Pact and benefited from logistics and politico-military support networks in neighboring countries. During major campaigns against U.S. and South Vietnamese forces – of which there were many each year – both the NVA and VC responded to centralized command and control directed by authorities in Hanoi. None of that is true of Iraq.In the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, enemy combatants are a combination of disparate Sunni Jihadi-terrorists, disenfranchised Ba'athists, Shia militias aligned with Iran, fanatical foreign Wahhabi Mujahadeen, Muslim Brotherhood-supported radicals and well-armed, hyper-violent criminal gangs, often with tribal connections that are stronger than any ideological, religious or political affiliations. Though many Jihadis receive indoctrination, munitions and refuge from a network of mosques and sectarian Islamic groups, centralized command, control and logistics support is virtually non-existent. Operating in small independent “cells” instead of organized, disciplined military units, the enemy in Mesopotamia has no ability to mount any kind of protracted offensive against U.S. or even lightly-armed Iraqi government forces. Increasingly dependent on improvised explosive devices and suicide-bomb attacks to inflict casualties, the opposition in Iraq is more “anarchy” than “insurgency.”

The second great fable about the war in Iraq is the horrific casualty rate. This is always the most difficult aspect of any war to address for all comparisons seem cynical. For those of us who have held dying soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines in our arms it is particularly painful. Yet, it is one of the oft-cited reasons for why we were “forced” to get out of Vietnam – and why we are once again being urged by the media to “end the bloodshed” in Iraq. Here’s a reality check.

Over the course of the entire Vietnam War, the “average” rate at which Americans died as a consequence of armed combat was about 15 per day. In 1968-69, when my brother and I served as Rifle Platoon and Infantry Company Commanders – he in the Army and I in the Marines – 39 Americans died every day in the war zone. In Iraq, the “kill rate” for U.S. troops is 2.06 per day.

During the 1968 “Tet Offensive” in Vietnam there were more than 2,100 U.S. casualties per week. In Iraq, the U.S. casualty rate from all causes has never exceeded 490 troops in a month.

None of this is to say, “my war was tougher than your war.” As of this writing 2,802 young Americans have been killed during three and one half years of war in Iraq. That’s roughly the same number killed at Iwo Jima during the first three and one half days of fighting against the Japanese. Every life lost was precious and every loss grievous to those who loved them. Unfortunately, our media intends to use every one of those killed to make their point. It’s a lesson they learned in Vietnam.

On 27 February 1968, after a month of brutal fighting and daily images of U.S. casualties on American television, Walter Cronkite, then the host of the CBS Evening News, proclaimed that the Tet Offensive had proven to him that the Vietnam War was no longer winnable. Four weeks later, Lyndon Johnson told the nation that “I shall not seek, and I will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your President.” It didn’t matter that Tet had been a decisive victory for the U.S. and South Vietnamese.

Today’s potentates of the press are trying to deliver the same message: that Iraq, like Vietnam, is un-winnable. One television network has gone so far as to broadcast images of U.S. troops being killed by terrorists – making Iraq the first war where Americans get their news from the enemy.

The war in Vietnam wasn’t lost during “Tet ‘68” no matter what Walter Cronkite said. Rather, it was lost in the pages of America’s newspapers, on our televisions, our college campuses – and eventually in the corridors of power in Washington. We need to pray that this war isn’t lost the same way.

Oliver North? LMAO Moosie

[MAD]

but this is who Oliver Douche really is- Americas Favorite Traitor!!!!!! dirtbag

[MAD]

i should have known better than to bring this arguement to these forums! my apologies... didnt want to piss on anyone, or be a douche!

[Hemi]

To be honest, this current war has enough blame to go around to both parties, Bush 1 lacked the balls to finish the job, Clinton did nothing but ignore it, and Bush 2 Fucked it up by not being willing to commit the troops to do what is needed to be done. Now I have a son, who more then likely would of been drafted if they did what needed to be done, just simply overrun the place with soliders, clean out the weapons, secure the borders, other words kick ass and take names. MAD, war is hell, but the ones who have fucked up and put our soliders in the position of doing what you say is the Iraqi and insurgents, they are the one that both uses them as cover and hell even some of them volunteer for it, this war is just like Vietnam, you can not tell the good guy from the bad guy, the insurgents are cowards that pretend to be a policeman or butcher during the day only to plant road side bombs during the night. This war will never completely end, regardless of who is elected, but what will happen is we will put another Sadam into power again, and just like fucking Castro, he will fucking turn on us and become a torn in our ass. Personally I am all for pulling every fucking solider back into the us, stop giving billions of dollars to countries like Saudi Arabia, and all the other ones we support and get our hands bit by. Spend that money on developing a secure border, fuck the rest of the world. Call me an isolationist and you would be correct. I am tired of watching this president, the past presidents, and all the future presidents spend the country in a debt that will fuck me over personally. IF the government were to be held accountable for its spending like you or me, we would not be paying 20% or more of our income to support a bunch of back stabbing baby kissers. If I could make two changes to our goverment, I would enforce a single item bill, no more pork barreling, each bill must stand on its own merit, and not dumped into a popular bill that everyone knows will get passed. Second would be to allow for a vote of no confidence where we can vote a congressman, senator, or president out of office if he does something a fucking stupid as GWB has done. Whom by the way will go down in the history of this country as the president that either destoryed our economy or started the downfall of our society. thats my 2 1/2 cents....

[Attris]

Lol Ford Racing thats a oxymoron avatar.

[MAD]

Lol Ford Racing thats a oxymoron avatar.

thats me being a douche!

[MAD]

To be honest, this current war has enough blame to go around to both parties, Bush 1 lacked the balls to finish the job, Clinton did nothing but ignore it, and Bush 2 Fucked it up by not being willing to commit the troops to do what is needed to be done. Now I have a son, who more then likely would of been drafted if they did what needed to be done, just simply overrun the place with soliders, clean out the weapons, secure the borders, other words kick ass and take names.

MAD, war is hell, but the ones who have fucked up and put our soliders in the position of doing what you say is the Iraqi and insurgents, they are the one that both uses them as cover and hell even some of them volunteer for it, this war is just like Vietnam, you can not tell the good guy from the bad guy, the insurgents are cowards that pretend to be a policeman or butcher during the day only to plant road side bombs during the night.

This war will never completely end, regardless of who is elected, but what will happen is we will put another Sadam into power again, and just like fucking Castro, he will fucking turn on us and become a torn in our ass. Personally I am all for pulling every fucking solider back into the us, stop giving billions of dollars to countries like Saudi Arabia, and all the other ones we support and get our hands bit by. Spend that money on developing a secure border, fuck the rest of the world. Call me an isolationist and you would be correct. I am tired of watching this president, the past presidents, and all the future presidents spend the country in a debt that will fuck me over personally. IF the government were to be held accountable for its spending like you or me, we would not be paying 20% or more of our income to support a bunch of back stabbing baby kissers.

If I could make two changes to our goverment, I would enforce a single item bill, no more pork barreling, each bill must stand on its own merit, and not dumped into a popular bill that everyone knows will get passed. Second would be to allow for a vote of no confidence where we can vote a congressman, senator, or president out of office if he does something a fucking stupid as GWB has done. Whom by the way will go down in the history of this country as the president that either destoryed our economy or started the downfall of our society.

thats my 2 1/2 cents....

War is Hell! it just needs to end. i'm sick of our media showing pictures of our dead troops like were over there getting our ass kicked. thats not true... it is very hard to distinguish who is who over there. but some of these soldiers are told to kill everything that moves.... i just could'nt imagine being there and constantly looking over my sholder every second of everyday, its gotta be stressful!

[Moose]

i should have known better than to bring this arguement to these forums!
my apologies...
didnt want to piss on anyone, or be a douche!

I see it as a compliment that you should always come with an "A" game to these forums, because someone is going to call you out on it if what you are saying is BS.
My problem with you argument is this...
20-30 minutes of picking up a newspaper/reading the AP, CNN, Reuters, BBC for your own research > people in my brother's tattoo shop

Also, can we make an effort to use the edit tab? There is really no need for 3 posts in 7 minutes to finish your own thoughts. You did this 3 separate times in this one thread. I'd love to speak to some of the things that you said, but it's impossible to quote you on three different post without me opening 4 tabs and getting confused.

Finally, Oliver North did some idiotic things, of which rulings were overturned in the Supreme Court, these things cannot replace, 22 years of Marine Corps Service, Bronze and Silver Stars and two Purple Hearts. I would tend to believe that someone that served in Vietnam would have insight about the subject before I completely dismiss, without reading what he had to say.



Hemi, I'll address what you had to say as soon as I have some more free time.

[MAD]

i'm sorry that i ramble on about things. and sometimes i think of more to say, and repost! i do not see the harm in posting more than 1 statement. and to what you said about what my bro tells me, well you obviously have not talked to my brother. this is first hand stuff, not shit thats in the papers... because the papers always tells the truth, lol! these are actual vets that have actually been there and done it! so i guess there information is misleading in some way huh? these are not people that sit behind a desk all day reading the paper... honestly does it really bother you that i post more than just once? i mean really do you not have anything else to worry about moose? and no i'm not mad, its an honest question! :roll:

[Moose]

In every other forum on the intertubes, doing that will get your comments edited or deleted. If I deleted those comments, you would whine and bitch event hough they have no substance. I thought I would do the cool thing and at least ask. Besides, it's the nice thing to do.

and to what you said about what my bro tells me, well you obviously have not talked to my brother. this is first hand stuff, not shit thats in the papers... because the papers always tells the truth, lol! these are actual vets that have actually been there and done it! so i guess there information is misleading in some way huh? these are not people that sit behind a desk all day reading the paper...

I guess the difference between you and I, is I like to see what all perspectives are and come to my own conclusion. I can tell you how I live three minutes from Elemendorf, five minutes from Fort Richardson. Through my work I talk weekly to Brigadier General Thomas Tinsley 3rd wing commander and occasionally Major General Craig Campbell who is currentl head of ALCOM, or Alaska Command overseeing entire military operations in the northern pacific. Sure I sit behind a desk and read newspapers to see whats going on, sure I ask other people their opinion, sure I look at soldier's blogs. I do this so when I don't have to spout off overly generalized statements like. This war is like the one 35 years ago.

[MAD]

delete all you want moose. edit all you want! i really dont care anymore. i'm here to have fun. i'm not here to argue with people. we are all adults here playing games! so what does that tell ya?

[Moose]

Adults can differntiate between games and real life and can have conversations about both. Adults can hit edit tabs to complete their thoughts. What does that tell you?

[Hemi]

Huh.. well... I am not sure....